Whose Land Is It? #2: “The View From ‘Palestine'” with Hanan Ashrawi, Part 2


BRETHREN, MY HEART’S DESIRE
AND PRAYER TO GOD FOR ISRAEL
IS THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
THE JEW AND THE GENTILE. FOR THE SAME LORD OVERALL IS
RICH UNTO ALL THAT CALL UPON
HIM. ZOLA LEVITT PRESENTS CONSIDERING THE TIMES AND
SEASONS OF OUR WORLD TODAY,
HERE’S ZOLA LEVITT. SHALOM, HELLO AGAIN.
WE’RE CONTINUING FROM LAST WEEK. I THINK, A VERY INTERESTING AND
EDUCATIONAL SORT OF PROGRAM. ON OUR LAST ISRAEL TOUR WE HAD
THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRAVEL INTO
RAMALLAH, IN THE WEST BANK, WHICH HAS TURNED OUT TO BE THE
DE FACTO PALESTINIAN CAPITAL,
IF YOU WILL. THAT’S WHERE ARAFAT’S
HEADQUARTERS IS AND THAT’S WHERE
WE ENCOUNTERED WITH A PALESTINIAN FILM CREW
WHO WERE VERY COURTEOUS
AND PROFESSIONAL, THEY TOOK US TO DR. HANAN
ASHRAWI, WHO IS ONE OF THE
PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY
SPOKESPEOPLE. SHE HAS RECENTLY APPEARED IN THE
UNITED STATES AT UNIVERSITY
OF COLORADO, I BELIEVE. SHE HAS, BEFORE,
BEEN A SPEAKER HERE. SHE TAUGHT AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF VIRGINIA. SHE GAVE US HER VIEW OF THE
WHOLE CONTROVERSY GOING ON
IN ISRAEL. I LISTENED POLITELY.
I DID NOT INTERRUPT OR ARGUE. MUCH OF WHAT SHE SAID IS WORTH
HEARING AND QUITE TRUTHFUL. OTHER THINGS ARE MORE
CONTROVERSIAL. RATHER THAN BEING A
SPOKESPERSON, WE TURNED THIS FOOTAGE OVER TO
2 ARAB-CHRISTIAN EXPERTS THAT
WE KNOW. DR. ASHRAWI IS AN ARAB-CHRISTIAN
AND HER PEER, DR. ERGUN CANER,
IS AN ARAB-CHRISTIAN. HE’S A PROFESSOR AT CRISWELL
COLLEGE IN DALLAS. THEN, JOSEPH FARAH,
THE EDITOR OF WORLD NET DAILY, A VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE
ARAB-AMERICAN CHRISTIAN. DR. CANER WAS RAISED AS THE SON
OF A MUEZZIN, AS A MUSLIM.
HE THEN CONVERTED TO CHRIST. JOSEPH FARAH WAS RAISED IN AN
ARAB-CHRISTIAN FAMILY. THEY DIFFER IN THAT RESPECT, BUT
AT THIS POINT THEY ARE HER PEERS AND THEY COMMENTED ON WHAT
SHE SAID. SO, NOW PICKING UP WHERE WE LEFT
OFF LAST WEEK, WE’LL HEAR FROM DR.ASHRAWI AND
THEN OUR COMMENTATORS. I READ AN ARTICLE ABOUT YOU IN
AN ANGLICAN MAGAZINE DESCRIBING
YOUR CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY. IT WAS EXCELLENT.ON THE
MCNEIL/LEHRER REPORT YOU MADE A
STATEMENT THAT WAS CURIOUS. YOU SAID JESUS CHRIST WAS A
PALESTINIAN PROPHET, BORN IN
BETHLEHEM, IN MY COUNTRY. I WONDERED ABOUT THAT. WELL, OF COURSE HE WAS BORN
JEWISH, BUT HE WAS A PALESTINIAN BECAUSE
HE WAS BORN IN PALESTINE. THERE ARE STILL MANY JEWISH
PALESTINIANS, OF COURSE, BUT THOSE WHO CHOSE TO BE
ISRAELI ARE ISRAELI JEWS. THERE ARE MANY MOSTLY OUTSIDE
OF ISRAEL WHO ARE
PALESTINIAN-CHRISTIANS. THERE ARE SOME WHO ARE
PLURALISTIC. I FELT THAT HE BELONGS TO MY
HERITAGE, TO MY PAST. WE ARE THE MOST ANCIENT
CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY. HE WAS A PALESTINIAN, HE WAS A
JEW AND HE BECAME A CHRISTIAN. WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUE
OF HANAN ASHRAWI’S CHRISTIAN
TESTIMONY A LITTLE BIT. I THINK IT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO
UNDERSTAND, PARTICULARLY FOR
AMERICAN AUDIENCES THAT WHEN PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE
EAST TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES AS
BEING CHRISTIAN, OFTEN WHAT THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT
IS A FORM OF CULTURAL
CHRISTIANITY RATHER THAN A DEEP-SEEDED BELIEF
OF THE HEART. I BELIEVE THAT’S WHERE HANAN
ASHRAWI IS COMING FROM IN
DEFINING HERSELF AS A
CHRISTIAN-ARAB. SHE TALKS ABOUT JESUS CHRIST
BEING A PALESTINIAN. HER RATIONALE FOR THAT IS THAT
HE WAS BORN IN PALESTINE. WELL, THAT’S KIND OF LUDICROUS
BECAUSE THE FIRST TIME THE TERM
PALESTINE IS USED IS IN 70 A.D. WHEN THE ROMANS RENAMED ISRAEL
PALESTINE AS A WAY OF ADDING
INSULT TO INJURY AFTER THEY DESTROYED THE TEMPLE
AND COMMITTED GENOCIDE AGAINST
THE JEWS. THE IDEA THAT JESUS CHRIST WAS A
PALESTINIAN IS VERY MUCH OF A
STRETCH. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN,
THIS IS ALMOST A FANTASY, BUT LET’S SAY A TWO-NATION
SOLUTION IS FORMED OR SOMETHING
LIKE IT, BUT PALESTINIANS HAVE A NATION
TO CONTROL AND SINCE THEY’RE
LARGELY MUSLIM, THEY BEGIN TO ACT LIKE A MUSLIM
GOVERNMENT? THEY TELL YOU TO COVER YOUR HAIR
AND THIS SORT OF THING? HISTORICALLY, PALESTINE HAS
ALWAYS BEEN ONE OF THE MOST
TOLERANT, OPEN, LIBERAL AND PLURALISTIC
SOCIETIES IN THE ARAB WORLD,
IN THE REGION. TOLERANT! OPEN! I WONDER HOW SHE
WOULD CLASSIFY THE 6 DAY WAR.
WAS THAT TOLERANT AND OPEN? HOW ABOUT YOM KIPPUR? WE HEAR IN OUR CULTURE TODAY,
ESPECIALLY IN AMERICA IN
THIS WINTER, THAT WE SHOULD NOT BOMB DURING
RAMADAN, THAT WE SHOULD NOT BOMB
DURING ID AL-FITR. WE SHOULD NOT BOMB DURING THE
HOLY DAYS OF MUSLIMS BECAUSE
THIS WOULD OFFEND THEM
WORLDWIDE. HOW OFFENSIVE WAS IT FOR THEM TO
PICK THE HIGH HOLY DAY, THE DAY OF ATONEMENT, FOR THEM
TO BOMB ISRAEL? HANAN ASHRAWI SAYS THAT
PALESTINE HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE OF
THE MOST OPEN, LIBERAL, PLURALISTIC AND TOLERANT
SOCIETIES IN THE REGION. WELL I DON’T KNOW WHAT TIME
FRAME HANAN ASHRAWI IS TALKING
ABOUT. FIRST OF ALL THERE HAS NEVER
BEEN A PALESTINIAN STATE. THERE’S NEVER BEEN A SOCIETY,
A SELF-GOVERNING ENTITY KNOWN AS PALESTINE IN THE
HISTORY OF THE WORLD. SO YOU FIRST OF ALL HAVE TO ASK
YOURSELF WHAT PALESTINE IS HANAN
ASHRAWI TALKING ABOUT WHEN SHE
DEFINES IT THAT WAY? IF YOU WANT TO USE LIBERAL,
PLURALISTIC, TOLERANT AND OPEN
SOCIETIES AS THE STANDARD FOR THE MIDDLE
EAST, THERE IS ONLY ONE.
IT’S THE STATE OF ISRAEL. IT’S THE ONLY DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY
IN THE REGION OUT OF 23 ARAB AND
MUSLIM STATES, ALL VARYING FORMS OF
TOTALITARIAN POLICE STATES AND ISRAEL IS THE ONLY LITTLE
TINY BASTION OF DEMOCRACY AND
FREEDOM IN THE REGION. ISLAM HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE MOST
INCLUSIVE RELIGION BECAUSE IT
DIDN’T COME TO DENY PREVIOUS
RELIGIONS. IT CAME TO AFFIRM THE TWO
PREVIOUS RELIGIONS. MY PROBLEM IS WITH THOSE IN ALL
RELIGIONS, WHETHER ISLAM,
CHRISTIANITY OR JUDAISM, WHO GIVE THEMSELVES LICENSE TO
INTERPRET IN THE MOST RIGID,
DOGMATIC MANNER HOLY TEXT AND TO USE THEM TO PUNISH,
TO POUND, TO BASH THE OTHER AND
TO NEGATE AND TO DENY THE OTHER. THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM AND YOU
HAVE THOSE ELEMENTS IN ALL 3
RELIGIONS. I BELIEVE FUNDAMENTALISM IN
CHRISTIANITY IS JUST AS
DANGEROUS, IF NOT MORE SO, THAN IT IS IN ISLAM,
THAN IT IS IN JUDAISM. WELL, I THINK AMERICANS WOULD
SAY RIGHT THERE,
BUT WAIT A MINUTE, FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS HAVE
NOT ATTACKED ANYONE OR BROKEN
DOWN A WORLD TRADE CENTER. WELL, IT FINDS MANY DIFFERENT
EXPRESSIONS. FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANS ALSO
NEGATE THE VALIDITY AND
LEGITIMACY OF THE OTHER,
WHICH IS VERY UNCHRISTIAN. BECAUSE CHRISTIANITY IS A VERY
TOLERANT– AND THEN FUNDAMENTALISTS TELL ME
I HAVE NO RIGHT TO EXIST AS A
PALESTINIAN REGARDLESS OF MY RELIGION AND
INSIST ON NEGATING MY VERY
RIGHTS, WHICH IS WHAT’S
HAPPENING NOW. THEY’RE TELLING ME THAT I SHOULD
ABANDON MY LAND, MY HISTORY, MY
CULTURE, MY SECURITY, MY LIFE FOR THE SAKE OF THEIR
INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE. THIS, TO ME, IS THE MOST
DOGMATIC AND RIGID AND
UNCHRISTIAN AND INHUMAN WAY. WHAT I FIND FASCINATING IS EVERY
TIME WE HAVE A RELEASED TAPE BY
OSAMA BIN MOHAMMED BIN LADEN, OR BY MULLAH OMAR, THE FIRST
GROUP TO WHICH THEY SPEAK IS NOT
THE INFIDEL COMMUNITY. IT’S NOT THE PEOPLE OF THE GREAT
SHATAN. IT IS, IN FACT, SPEAKING TO
OTHER MUSLIMS. WHEN THEY SAY, YOU HAVE BEEN
OBLIGED; YOU HAVE BEEN FARDIL,
OBLIGED TO HOLY WAR. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY DON’T SEE
THEMSELVES AS FUNDAMENTALISTS.
THEY ARE PURISTS. THEY BELIEVE THE KORAN.
THEY BELIEVE THE HADITH. THEY BELIEVE THAT ONCE YOU HAVE
BEEN OBLIGED TO HOLY WAR,
YOU MUST FIGHT HOLY WAR. THEY ARE NOT FUNDAMENTALISTS.
INSTEAD, THEY VIEW THESE MUSLIMS
AS BAD MUSLIMS. IF A STATE IS ESTABLISHED, DO
YOU SUPPOSE HAMAS AND OTHER
MILITANT GROUPS WILL STOP THE
RESISTANCE? OH, YES THEY WILL, OF COURSE. YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
HAMAS AND ISLAMIC JIHAD AS
PALESTINIANS ORGANIZATIONS AS OPPOSED TO OTHER PAN-ISLAMIC
ORGANIZATIONS, IS THAT THESE ARE
LINKED TO A CERTAIN NATIONAL
STRUGGLE. HAMAS AND JIHAD, THEY’RE PART OF
A STRUGGLE AGAINST THE
OCCUPATION. IF YOU REMOVE THE OCCUPATION,
YOU DISARM AND DIFFUSE– THEY DO NOT HAVE A GLOBAL
MESSAGE.
THEY ARE NOT OUT THERE. THEY’VE NEVER CARRIED OUT
ACTIONS OUTSIDE OF PALESTINE. THEY’VE NEVER BEEN OUT THERE
TRYING TO EITHER PROSELYTIZE OR KILL PEOPLE OR IMPOSE A
PAN-ISLAMIC AGENDA.
THAT’S ONE. TWO, I THINK THAT WE HAVE
SUFFICIENT DEMOCRATIC FORCES
IN PALESTINE IN ORDER TO WEAKEN EXTREMISM BY
DEMOCRATIC MEANS. THIS IS HOW WE SHOULD DEAL
WITH IT. THE MAJORITY OF PALESTINIANS ARE
COMMITTED TO A 2-STATE SOLUTION. THEY’RE COMMITTED TO ACCEPTING
THE OTHER. THEY’RE COMMITTED TO THIS
INCLUSIVE APPROACH. THEY DON’T WANT TO DESTROY THE
STATE OF ISRAEL OR REPLACE THE
STATE OF ISRAEL. HANAN ASHRAWI SUGGESTS THAT THE
PALESTINIAN PEOPLE SUPPORT A
2-STATE SOLUTION. IN OTHER WORDS, THE IDEA OF A
SEPARATE PALESTINIAN STATE, A SEPARATE ISRAELI STATE LIVING
SIDE BY SIDE IN PEACE
AND HARMONY. I HAVE CAREFULLY LOOKED AT EVERY
PUBLIC OPINION SURVEY DONE OF
ARABS IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD AND I SEE NO EVIDENCE TO
BACK THAT UP. I WISH IT WERE SO.
I WISH IT WERE SO. BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS
FROM MY OWN PERSONAL ANECDOTAL
EXPERIENCE, THE INTERVIEWS I’VE CONDUCTED ON
THE GROUND THERE, I SEE NO
EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT. IT’S WISHFUL THINKING ON HER
PART AT BEST. I’VE BEEN LISTENING TO ZOLA FOR
5 OR 6 YEARS. WHEN MY MOTHER CALLED AND SAID,
“I’M PLANNING A TRIP TO ISRAEL.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO?” I DIDN’T HESITATE.I SAID,
“ABSOLUTELY.” SHE SAID,”DO YOU KNOW ANYWHERE
OR HOW TO GET THERE?” I SAID, “ABSOLUTELY,
LET ME GIVE ZOLA A CALL.” THIS IS THE MOST SPECIAL PLACE
IN THE WORLD AND THIS IS THE
PLACE WE WANTED TO BE. WE CAN’T IMAGINE THAT WE’RE
HERE. IT’S, YOU KNOW, WE JUST CAN’T
IMAGINE WE’RE HERE. WELL, OUR TOURS OF THE HOLY LAND
CONTINUE AS USUAL.
THEY’RE SOME TENSION OVER THERE. IT’S NOT AS DANGEROUS AS STAYING
HOME AND I’VE SPECIFIED THAT
MANY TIMES. ON OUR LAST TOUR WE HAD THIS
OPPORTUNITY,
IF YOU JUST TUNED IN, TO GO TO RAMALLAH AND TALK WITH
DR. HANAN ASHRAWI, ONE OF THE SPOKESPERSONS FOR THE
PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY. YOU’VE SEEN HER ON THE NEWS
I’M SURE AND WE TOOK THAT FOOTAGE TO
ARAB-CHRISTIAN EXPERTS
OF OUR OWN ACQUAINTANCE, DR. ERGUN CANER AND JOSEPH FARAH
AND THEY COMMENTED ON WHAT
SHE SAID. I STEPPED OUT OF IT,
I’M THE NEUTRAL OBSERVER. I GOT THE TESTIMONY FROM HER AND
I TOOK IT TO THEM IS ALL AND
HERE IS HOW IT CONTINUED. IT’S HARD TO BELIEVE IN LIGHT
OF, PERHAPS HE’S OVERLY RADICAL, BUT A HAMAS LEADER SAID THAT
THIS RESISTANCE, THIS MORE THAN
RESISTANCE, THIS MILITANCY WILL CONTINUE
UNTIL ALL OF THE JEWS LEAVE THE
LAND OF PALESTINE. IT’S NOT A 2-STATE SOLUTION. NO, THE MAJORITY OF THE
PALESTINIANS ACCEPT THE 2-STATE
SOLUTION. LET ME PRESENT YOU WITH A
HYPOTHESIS. LET’S SAY THAT A GROUP IN IDAHO
OR IOWA, OR SOME SMALL STATE
SETS UP A COMPOUND, FENCES IT IN AND CLAIMS IT TO BE
THE NATION OF THIS COMPOUND. TO PROVE THEIR POINT, THEY STOP
PAYING TAXES. THEY SET UP THEIR OWN BANKS.
THEY SET UP THEIR OWN SYSTEMS. TO FURTHER PROVE THEIR POINT,
WHEN THE POLICE IN THAT CITY OR NEARBY THAT COMPOUND COME BY
THEY SHOOT THEM. THEY BEGIN TO GO INTO THE
NEIGHBORING CITIES
AND THEY BOMB PEOPLE. SOME OF THEM EVEN STRAP BOMBS TO
THEMSELVES, WALK INTO THE STORES AND INTO THE RESTAURANTS AND
STRAP BOMBS TO THEMSELVES. THEY MAKE THE POINT AND THEY
SAY, WE WILL NOT STOP THIS UNTIL YOU RECOGNIZE OUR COMPOUND
AS A SEPARATE, SOVEREIGN NATION. WHAT WOULD WE DO AS AMERICANS?
WHAT WOULD OUR COUNTRY DO? THAT IS WHAT WE ARE ASKING
ISRAEL TO DO. WE ARE ASKING TERRORISTS TO SET
UP YOUR OWN COUNTRY. WE ARE ALLOWING THEM TO BOMB
ISRAEL, TO JUST ABSOLUTELY
OBLITERATE INNOCENT CIVILIANS AND WE ASK THEM TO THINK THAT
THESE ARE ACTS OF WAR,
NOT TERRORISM. THEN, WE ARE ASKING ISRAEL TO
RECOGNIZE THEM AS A STATE,
TO BENEFIT TERRORISM. WHY WOULD WE NOT DO THAT
IN AMERICA? OBVIOUSLY TWO REASONS COME TO
MIND. ONE, THAT’S NOT THE WAY A
SOVEREIGN NATION OPERATES. SECONDLY, IT REWARDS TERRORISM. WOULD WE ALWAYS SUSPECT THAT
THEY MAY DO MORE TO GET MORE
LAND?OF COURSE. SO SHOULD ISRAEL. THIS IS A TIME FOR CHRISTIANS
AND EVANGELICALS, FOR JEWS TO UNITE TOGETHER AND
BAND TOGETHER.
WE CANNOT REWARD TERRORISM. WE CANNOT REWARD ACTS OF
TERRORISM ANYMORE ON OUR LAND AS
WE WOULD ASK ISRAEL TO DO ON ITS I CAN ALMOST HEAR AMERICAN’S
SAYING, BUT WAIT, DR. ASHRAWI,
THERE ARE PEOPLE– A HUNDRED PLACES IN THE WORLD
ARE OCCUPIED. THEY DON’T ACTUALLY KILL THE
OCCUPANTS. THERE IS NO OTHER OCCUPIER. HOW ABOUT IF YOU LIVED IN
AMERICA. WE HAVE NATIVE AMERICANS ON
RESERVATIONS. THEIR NATIVES TO THE LAND, YET
THEY’RE OCCUPIED TOTALLY. THEY DON’T COME OUT AND KILL
PEOPLE. THAT SITUATION, YES. THAT SITUATION WAS RESOLVED IN A
WAY WHICH WAS ENTIRELY UNFAIR TO
THE INDIGENOUS AMERICANS. IT’S NOT IN RECENT HISTORY AND
IT HASN’T BEEN VIEWED AS AN
OCCUPATION OR A STRUGGLE FOR
INDEPENDENCE. THE INDIAN NATIONS ARE SEEKING
THE RECOGNITION OF THEIR OWN
IDENTITY AND NATIONHOOD WITHIN
THE LARGER AMERICA. NO, HERE WE ARE SEEKING OUR
FREEDOM BECAUSE WE ARE UNDER
MILITARY OCCUPATION. ONE OF THE TERMS THAT DEFINES
THE DEBATE FOR PALESTINIAN ARABS
IS THIS WORD – OCCUPATION. WE HEAR IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
WE’VE HEARD HANAN ASHRAWI USE
IT AGAIN. WE SAY THAT THERE IS ONLY
ONE COUNTRY OCCUPIED IN THE
MIDDLE EAST AND IT’S THE COUNTRY OF LEBANON
WHICH IS OCCUPIED BY SYRIA. THERE IS A FORM OF OCCUPATION IN
PALESTINE TODAY AND IT’S THE OCCUPATION THAT
YASSER ARAFAT IS EMPLOYING OVER
THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE IN THE WEST BANK AND GAZA
AND SO FORTH. ALL OF THAT LAND WAS GIVEN TO
THE JEWS UNDER THE ORIGINAL
U.N. MANDATE. THERE IS ANOTHER PALESTINIAN
COUNTRY TODAY KNOWN AS JORDAN. IT’S ALWAYS BEEN PREDOMINATELY
PALESTINIAN POPULATION. THAT REALLY OCCUPIES MOST OF THE
TERRITORY THAT WAS GRANTED TO
THE ARABS UNDER THE ORIGINAL
U.N. MANDATE. THIS WHOLE SILLY NOTION OF
OCCUPATION HAS TO BE TURNED
AROUND AND STOOD ON ITS HEAD. ISRAEL IS NOT THE OCCUPIER. IN ALL FAIRNESS, I INTERVIEW
PEOPLE OF ALL SIDES IN
QUESTIONS. IF I TALK TO AN AVERAGE MEMBER
OF THE ISRAELI PARLIAMENT,
THE KNESSET, I THINK HE WOULD PROBABLY SAY,
LOOK, WE WERE HERE
A LONG TIME AGO. PALESTINIANS ARE VARIOUS ARABS
FROM VARIOUS STATES.
WE MEAN THEM NO HARM. WE’VE BROUGHT THE 20TH CENTURY
TO THEM AND SO FORTH, BUT THEY JUST WON’T COOPERATE
AND WON’T LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY AND WE DON’T KNOW WHICH WAY
TO TURN. THAT’S NOT THE RIGHT VIEW OF
HISTORY. ASK THE ISRAELIS YOU TALK TO,
WHEN DID THEY COME TO PALESTINE.
WHEN? THOSE WHO WERE ORIGINALLY
PALESTINIANS ARE A MINORITY
WITHIN ISRAEL. MOST OF THEM CAME FROM BROOKLYN,
FROM MOSCOW, FROM– THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO CAME WITH
THEIR DIFFERENT CULTURES AND
LANGUAGES AND SO ON AND RELIGION BECAME TRANSFORMED
INTO A POLITICAL INSTRUMENT IN
ORDER TO TAKE OVER A LAND IN WHICH THERE WERE PEOPLE
WHO’VE BEEN LIVING CONTINUOUSLY
FOR CENTURIES. WE’VE BEEN HERE FOR CENTURIES. WE DIDN’T EMERGE ONLY IN
RESPONSE TO THE CREATION OF
THE STATE OF ISRAEL. ASHRAWI SAYS THAT WE,
MEANING THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, DIDN’T JUST COME ABOUT IN
RESPONSE TO THE CREATION TO THE
STATE OF ISRAEL – ONLY IN
RESPONSE. I THINK THERE’S SOME CANDOR
THERE THAT I’D LIKE TO SEE FROM
MORE OF THE PALESTINIAN
SPOKESMEN. INDEED, WHAT’S SHE’S
ACKNOWLEDGING IS THE FACT THAT THERE’S BEEN
THIS TREMENDOUS INFLUX OF ARAB
POPULATION INTO THE REGION SINCE THE
CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL. IN FACT, AS I MENTION EARLIER,
THAT INFLUX BEGAN BACK AS EARLY
AS 1900 WHEN THE HIGHER LEVELS OF JEWISH
IMMIGRATION BEGAN. THAT IS A REALITY.
THAT’S A REALITY THAT NEEDS TO
BE DEALT WITH. ONCE AGAIN WE SEE THAT THE FOLKS
THAT WE REFER TO AS PALESTINIANS
ARE ACTUALLY COMING FROM 22 ARAB
STATES. THEY’RE COMING FROM NON-ARAB
STATES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD. THEY’RE MUSLIMS FROM PAKISTAN.
THEY’RE MUSLIMS FROM INDONESIA. THEY’RE MUSLIMS FROM ALL OVER
THE WORLD. TODAY WE CALL THEM PALESTINIANS
AND WE’RE DISCUSSING GIVING THEM
RIGHTS TO A NATIONAL HOMELAND. IT JUST DOESN’T MAKE ANY SENSE. NOW ISRAELI POLITICS IS
CHANGING, TOO, AS WE SPEAK. THIS WEEK NOT ONLY DID ARAFAT
APPOINT NEW CABINET MEMBERS, BUT HALF OF THE ISRAELI
GOVERNMENT WALKED OUT.
>>NOT HALF, BUT A MAJOR PORTION. NOT ONLY IS THERE CHANGES IN THE
PALESTINIAN CABINET AT THIS
TIME, BUT IN THE ISRAELI KNESSET
THERE’S A SEA CHANGE. A WHOLE LABOR PARTY WALKED OUT
OF THE GOVERNMENT. IT’S A MINORITY OF THE
GOVERNMENT, BUT STILL THEY LEFT. THIS LEAVES A POSSIBILITY OF NEW
ELECTIONS COMING UP. IT’S QUITE A SHAKE UP.
IT BRINGS PERSONALITIES OUT OF
THE CLOSET, SO TO SPEAK. JUST TO ASK, OF COURSE YOU HAVE
SHARON IS IN POWER AND HE WANTS
TO REMAIN IN POWER. YOU HAVE NETANYAHU BEING
SUGGESTED. DO YOU HAVE ANY PREFERENCE AMONG
THESE GENTLEMEN? IT IS THE LESSER OF 2 EVILS,
HUH? I THINK THEY ALL BELONG TO
ONE CAMP. THEY MAY HAVE INTERNAL,
DOMESTIC DIFFERENCES MOTIVATED
BY THEIR OWN AMBITION. WHO WANTS TO OUTFLANK WHOM FROM
THE RIGHT? BUT MOST BELONG TO THE MOST
EXTREME ZIONIST TRADITION, WHICH IS BASED ON THE NEGATION
OF THE OTHER, WHICH IS BASED ON THE EXTENSION
OF THE MENTALITY OF OCCUPATION THINKING THAT YOU CAN REALLY
DEFEAT A NATION BENT ON GETTING ITS INDEPENDENCE
AND FREEDOM AND DIGNITY ON ITS
OWN LAND. THEY BOTH ADOPT MILITARY MEANS
AND VIOLENCE FOR MEANS OF
SUBDUING A NATION. TO ME, THERE IS DANGER TO ISRAEL
AND TO PALESTINE IN HAVING SUCH
AN EXTREMIST GOVERNMENT. YOU ALSO FORGOT ONE INGREDIENT. YOU FORGOT MOFAZ, WHO IS KNOWN
FOR HIS RUTHLESSNESS,
>>THE NEW DEFENSE MINISTRY, SHAUL MOFAZ AND OF COURSE, THEY
ARE COURTING LIEBERMAN WHO JUST
CAME FROM THE EX-SOVIET UNION, WHO CLAIMS THAT GOD GAVE HIM ALL
THIS LAND, THEREFORE HE HAS TO
CARRY OUT ETHNIC CLEANSING AND KICK OUT ALL THE
PALESTINIANS AND BOMB
EGYPT AND BOMB IRAN. SO YOU HAVE THE MOST
IRRESPONSIBLE, YOU HAVE A VERY DANGEROUS
COMBINATION OF EXTREMISM. NOT THAT THE LABOR PARTY MADE A
LOT OF DIFFERENCE IN THAT
CABINET. WAIT A MINUTE.
BARAK WAS A PRIME MINISTER OF
THE LABOR PARTY. EVERY AMERICAN WOULD LIKE A
CLEAR ANSWER TO WHY, WHEN HE OFFERED A VIABLE
PALESTINIAN STATE DIDN’T
WASHINGTON– ARAFAT DIDN’T SAY,
THIS IS WHAT WE WANT.
WE’LL TAKE IT. I’M GLAD YOU RAISED THIS
QUESTION BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN
SO MANY MYTHS AND DISTORTIONS. AMERICAN VIEWERS HAVE ACCEPTED A
CERTAIN VERSION THAT HAS NOTHING
TO DO WITH REALITY. IN CAMP DAVID THERE WAS NO, AS
YOU SAY, GENEROUS OFFER. THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS.
THERE WERE INITIAL IDEAS. THERE WAS NOTHING IN WRITING.
THERE WERE NO AGREEMENTS. THERE WERE JUST IDEAS THAT KEPT
CHANGING EVERY DAY SAYING, HOW MUCH LAND CAN BARAK TAKE
AWAY FROM THE 22 PERCENT, WHICH IS THE WEST BANK AND GAZA,
TO MAINTAIN MORE SETTLEMENTS. HOW MUCH LAND CAN HE TAKE THAT
WOULD LEAVE THE PALESTINIAN
STATE TERRITORIALLY NON-CONTINUANT
AND, THEREFORE, NOT VIABLE. HE WANTED TO ANNEX AREAS WITHIN
JERUSALEM, AROUND JERUSALEM.
HE FRAGMENTED THE WEST BANK. HE WANTED US TO RELINQUISH THE
RIGHT OF RETURN FOR ALL REFUGEES
JUST LIKE THAT. THEN TO SAY THIS IS THE END OF
THE CONFLICT, WE SAID, OK. THESE ARE NOT ISSUES ON WHICH WE
CAN COME TO AN AGREEMENT. THESE ARE IDEAS THAT NEED
FURTHER DEVELOPMENT. THEY WILL NOT FORM A SOLUTION
BECAUSE THE ESSENTIAL INGREDIENT
OF JUSTICE IS MISSING. LET’S EXPLORE THEM FURTHER.
THERE WAS NO REJECTION
AND THERE WAS NO OFFER. THE FUNDAMENTAL POINT THAT
DR. LEVITT MAKES HERE, NUMBER ONE, IT MUST BE STATED
THERE WAS AN OFFER MADE. IT MUST BE STATED THAT ARAFAT
DID, IN FACT, WALK AWAY. HE WOULD NOT SIGN AN ACCORD AND
HE WOULD NOT SIGN AN AGREEMENT. HE HAS A VESTED INTEREST IN
REVOLUTION, BUT PERHAPS NOT AS
MUCH IN PEACE. HE WALKED AWAY. ASHRAWI SAYS THAT DURING THE
BARAK ADMINISTRATION AND DURING
THOSE NEGOTIATIONS THERE WAS NO REJECTION OF A
PEACE PLAN. SHE SUGGESTS THERE WAS NO PEACE
PLAN AT ALL, THAT THERE WAS NOTHING REALLY
CONCRETE PUT ON THE TABLE. SO THERE WAS NOTHING TO REJECT
IN THE FIRST PLACE. AS I UNDERSTAND IT, SHE WAS NOT
A PART OF THOSE NEGOTIATIONS. SHE WAS NOT A PART OF THE
PALESTINIAN AUTHORITIES
NEGOTIATING TEAM. SO HER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WAS
HAPPENING WOULD BE BASED ON THE
SAME KIND OF FACTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO ALL OF US
PEOPLE WHO READ NEWSPAPERS
AND SO FORTH. PEOPLE WHO DO READ NEWSPAPERS
AND WHO ARE INFORMED ABOUT THOSE
NEGOTIATIONS UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WERE
INDEED VERY, VERY CONCRETE
PROPOSALS, UNBELIEVABLE CONCESSIONS THAT
WERE MADE BY ISRAELIS,
BY THE ISRAELI LEADERSHIP. IN FACT, THE ISRAELI POPULATION
WAS STUNNED THAT EVERYTHING WAS
PUT ON THE TABLE, INCLUDING JERUSALEM,
WAS PUT ON THE TABLE. THE TEMPLE MOUNT WAS PUT ON
THE TABLE. THAT IS INDEED WHY BARAK WAS
ULTIMATELY REJECTED BECAUSE
THIS PEACE PLAN FAILED. THE ISRAELI POPULATION LOOKED AT
THAT AND SAID THERE IS NO WAY WE
COULD EVERY MAKE THESE FOLKS, THE PALESTINIANS, HAPPY IF THEY
REJECTED THESE KINDS OF
CONCESSIONS. THAT’S THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT. WE GAVE DR. ASHRAWI AN OPEN MIC
AS THEY CALL IT IN THE BUSINESS. SHE WAS ALLOWED TO TALK AT
LENGTH AS SHE PLEASED. WE DIDN’T TIME IT OR SAY IT WAS
A 15 MINUTE INTERVIEW. WE JUST LET HER GO AHEAD AND
TELL US WHAT SHE WANTED TO
TELL US. WE THEN TOOK THE TAPE TO OUR
EXPERTS, DR. CANER AND
JOSEPH FARAH, ARAB-CHRISTIANS IN AMERICA AND
THEY COMMENTED ON WHAT SHE SAID. YOU BE THE JUDGE.
I’M IN THE MIDDLE. I GOT THE INTERVIEW, TRANSFERRED
THE TAPE AND THAT’S ALL. THERE WILL COME A TIME IN THE
FUTURE WHEN WE WON’T HAVE TO
WORRY ABOUT THESE THINGS. THE KINGDOM TO COME WILL BE IN
THE HOLY LAND. IT WILL BE IN JERUSALEM AND ALSO
IN RAMALLAH. THERE WILL BE PEACE AS THE LORD
SAYS IN ISAIAH 11:16 ISAIAH 19 ALSO DESCRIBES THIS
HIGHWAY THAT RUNS FROM ARAB
NATION TO ARAB NATION, RIGHT THROUGH ISRAEL;
FROM ASSYRIA, THROUGH ISRAEL, TO EGYPT AND BACK,
THEREFORE DESCRIBING PEACE. WE CROSSED A BORDER, SO VERY
TREACHEROUS AND DANGEROUS JUST
TO MAKE THIS PROGRAM. IN THAT DAY, WE COULD GO ACROSS
NATIONAL BORDERS, NEVER MIND THE
BORDER BETWEEN JERUSALEM
AND RAMALLAH. AT THAT TIME WE HAVE THE
WONDERFUL VERSE, LET ME TEACH YOU SOMETHING. IN HEBREW, THE WORD SALVATION
IS YESHUA.
IT’S JESUS’ NAME. IT’S WHAT HE WAS CALLED IN
ISRAEL – YESHUA. THE VERSE THAT SAYS MARY CALLED
HIS NAME JESUS, BECAUSE HE
BROUGHT HIS PEOPLE SALVATION DOESN’T MAKE ANY SENSE UNLESS
YOU USE HIS REAL NAME – YESHUA, THEN YOU WOULD SAY,
MARY CALLED HIS NAME YESHUA,
SALVATION, BECAUSE HE WILL BRING HIS PEOPLE
SALVATION.
NOW IT MAKES SENSE. WHEN IT SAYS THAT JEHOVAH ALSO
IS BECOME MY SALVATION, THE VERSE TEACHES THAT JEHOVAH
BECOMES JESUS AND COMES TO THE
EARTH AND BRINGS YESHUA –
SALVATION TO US. UNTIL THAT DAY COMES, HOWEVER,
RAMALLAH AND JERUSALEM ARE
AWFULLY CLOSE TOGETHER. AS YOU CAN TELL FROM THE
TESTIMONY, THEY’RE STILL QUITE
A BIT OF ARGUMENT GOING ON. WHEN I WENT TO RAMALLAH I WAS
STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT WE LEFT
OUR HOTEL AND IN 15 OR 20 MINUTES WE’RE AT
THIS CHECKPOINT THAT LOOKED LIKE
THE BERLIN WALL FOR ALL THE SOLDIERS AND
CONFUSION AND PEOPLE RUNNING
HERE AND THERE, A BOMBED OUT CAR AND ALL THE
REST OF IT. I WAS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT
THEY’RE SO CLOSE TOGETHER. WHEN YOU THINK OF THESE EVENTS
IN RAMALLAH, IT IS RIGHT ON THE
BORDER OF JERUSALEM. AS YOU DO THAT,
SHA’ALU SHALOM YERUSHALAYIM,
PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM.

9 comments

  1. ergun caner is not an "Arab christian" Turkish people are NOT Arabs and he is only half Turkish anyway and half Swedish

  2. about 3.5, if you holdup "there is no difference Jew or Gentile" and then at 3.5 you allow this "splitting of hairs" around what is a christian. that's just silly. There is no "whole controversy" in Israel, if Israel has a right to exist, so too does Palestine. recall: no difference Jew or Gentile.
    at least from the point of view of the New Testament. Jesus was a Palestinian because he was born in Palestine. At Jesus birth, the place where he was born was simply considered Palestine.

  3. Over 1500,000 Palestians have been massacred since the creation of Israel by 'Israelis' whom were shipped from Poland, Germany etc after WW1 to escape such massacres and claimed their own nation on Palestine and unrecognized the indigenous people of that land they also forced them out from their towns and left them scattered around the world as immigrants yet they have the audacity criticize PALESTINIANS

  4. Nice , so according to you Palstine existed since 135 A.D which means its much longer than creation of Isreal , and also when the current inhabitantors of Israel were deeply rooted in Europe

  5. so the people that were there before the creation of israel for centuries were a flock of sheep wondering around? and the jewish people that came in from different parts of the world after ww1 escaping massacres are the rightful nation of that land … Thank you very much your making clear sense

  6. The "Palestinian Authority", Fatah (Ms. Hanan Ashrawi), is acting like someone who 'doesn't want to 'wash their dirty laundry in public'…. 

    not saying the true: that "Hamas", one of the many terrorist Islamic Fanatic Palestinian organizations, is the real problem. The "Fatah itself! ran away from murder "Hamas", from Gaza, in 2007! 
     
    But now that "Palestinian Authority is lying that Israel es attacking "the Palestinian people"  not true! Hamas is attacking Israel and then, using the people as human shields.

    Sami abu Zuhri, speaker of Hamas, saying ti by himself:
    Hamas Spokesperson Encourages Use of Human Shield
     
     
    "The Palestinian Authority" is saying that all the problem is the "occupation", while them know that the occupation today is very small, due to peace processes, Zone A B C… they Know that their problem, is HAMAS, same as Israel  

    (not to say that the 'occupation' was created because Syria, Egypt and Jordan attacked Israel in 1967, and REFUSED to receive those areas back afterwards!)

    Niños en Gaza son educados para el terrorismo

    Ms Hanan Ashrawi: Akul J'arta! 

    LOL [eyes rolling]

  7. According to Philosophy of Law, the first condition to be an independent state is to have his own money> Since 1983, Oslo accords, the Palestinians never tried to have their money and they continue to use the New Israeli Shekel. Then they can declare Jihad Intifada or to make peace. The last condition is to vote laws. One of these Palestinian laws is that a Palestinian who sold land to a Jew must be put to death.

  8. Hanan Ashrawi is completly wrong in her prophecies. Since then Barak was defeated by Ariel Sharon. And Ariel Sharon was the only Prime Minister who returned to the 1949 1967 borders, since he gave away Gaza strip and North Samaria in 2005. In 2007 the Hamas exterminated the Fatah members. Iran gave $ 400 million to Hamas in 2011. And Qatar gave $ 600 million in 2014. Instead of trying to be rich like Singapore, the Hamas began to behave like Nazis with missiles V1 V2. Remember the Royal Air Force and the American Air Force they razed completly Dresden, Hambourg and Berlin when London was destroyed with German missiles

  9. Starting at 17:30, what Joseph Farrah says doesn't make any sense: The lie that there was a "tremendous influx" of Muslims into Palestine from about 1900. No representative of the Israeli government ever uses this one, and they would if they could. It's demographic nonsense. The populations of ALL the countries surrounding Israel/Palestine about doubled from the late 19th century onward. So if all these Arabs from the areas now known as, for instance, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, came into Israel/Palestine in that period, who came into places such as Amman, Damascus, and even Riyadh and Jeddah to replace them?

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